Our favorite summer movies, vacations, Bible verses, and Bible characters (not named Jesus)

Summary

In their “summer favorites” series, Dr. Jim Denison and Dr. Mark Turman discuss their favorite summer movies, summer eats, and summer vacations before delving into more spiritual matters and sharing their preferred Bible translations, favorite Bible verses, and their favorite Bible characters—not named Jesus.

• Favorite summer movies (2:08)
• Favorite summer food and vacations (5:16)
• Favorite Bible translations (7:50)
• Favorite Bible verses (12:44)
• Favorite Bible characters not named Jesus (22:06)

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About the hosts

Jim Denison, Ph.D., is an author, speaker, and the CEO of Denison Ministries, which is transforming 6.8 million lives through meaningful digital content.

Dr. Mark Turman is the executive director of Denison Forum. He received his DMin from Truett at Baylor and previously served as lead pastor of Crosspoint Church.

Transcript

Transcribed by Otter.ai.

Mark Turman  00:08

This is the Denison Forum Podcast. I’m Dr. Mark Turman, Executive Director of Denison forum. We’re thanking you again for being with us sitting down again with Dr. Jim Dennison. Jim, how are you? Today?

Jim Denison  00:19

I’m doing well, my friend, how

Mark Turman  00:19

are you doing? Great. Welcome to what we’re calling our summer favorites series. So little give you a little explicit explanation of what we’re trying to do. Jim, my goal is for this to be helpful in three ways. I want it to be helpful that is practical, encouraging, edifying for our audience, I want it to be personal, that this season of summer favorites would give some insight into who you are, who I am, how we work together what our ministry is about. So one of the things I want us to try to always avoid is digital Phantom Menace, where people think that they’re not really connected to us, because the way they connect to us is primarily through digital media. And that’s great. We’re grateful for that. But how do we make it as incarnational and personal as possible? And the last goal is really the challenge. And that is for us to be brief, more brief than what we normally are on our podcast. Why would that be a challenge? Mark? I can’t imagine too difficult to preachers who are known for brevity, of course, probably. So yeah. And everybody that knows us is running into rolling their eyes as they listen to this in their car, right. But the idea is to bring something a little bit different here in the summer months, we most all of us change our patterns and engage in life a little bit differently as we get into a different season. And we know that in podcast data as well. And so we thought we would do something a little bit different, that maybe our people could connect to, but also be useful and practical, encouraging, edifying. And we as we always do, try to be equipping and that so that’s what the summer favorite series is about probably three, four, maybe five episodes, we’ll see how many of them were able to do. So. We’ll just start off real quickly. What’s your favorite thing about summer? Or do you have anything that’s your favorite about summer?

Jim Denison  02:14

Oh, good question. My first thought is summer movies. I mean, growing up the blockbusters, all that stuff. You know, I used to look forward to it all the time. I’m just kind of a movie guy. I love movies, I just always have that’s always been something I’ve just enjoyed doing. And then over the years, as I began trying to understand culture better, I came to understand movies are a great way to do that. If a movie is popular, there’s a reason for that. They’re making movies and making money at it that tells us something why so many superhero movies? And what does that say about? Maybe some of the discouragement of the culture right now, that sort of thing. And so, yeah, so that’s always been the thing. We always look forward to getting out of school. Of course, that was fun. You know, my brother and I would spend the summer on our bikes, you know, riding around southwest Houston and trying to stay out of jail and all that and so, but really, at the end of the day, it’s just more relaxed. And that’s a fun place.

Mark Turman  02:58

Right? So that’s a great segue to is there a favorite movie of Do you have an all time favorite movie?

Jim Denison  03:06

Yeah, Princess Bride. Okay. Yeah. Of all why if I had to pick one, and so it’s everything a movie out to be nothing. It shouldn’t. So it’s humorous. It’s, it’s literature to start with. It’s a book made into a movie. Those are always I think the best movies, love the acting, love the whims scenesse, wimps, winsomeness, whatever that word is. Just love the right humor that’s in it. I can watch it. I’ve probably seen it 30 times. And each time I do it’s amusing to me again, entertaining, I’ve seen it with my grandkids. They’re just everything about it, I think is really appealing. What about you?

Mark Turman  03:39

Well, it’s hard for me to pick my wife is is we’re going to listen to this. And it’s going to wonder if I’m going to say what she would probably say for me, which is the movie Titanic, which is just breathtaking in the cinematography, it is. The personal illness of the story is what gives me that these were real people and experienced just something unbelievable. And so tragic in that nature. Not a movie per se, but kind of like a movie a mini series that I remember sitting down and watching with my parents called lumps Lonesome Dove, based in part in Texas, where we’re from, and just, it connects me back to my dad. It was kind of his favorite genre Western obviously was a big part of his life. And I just remembered it’s not only the story, but the experience of experiencing that story with my parents has always been a favorite. And I love movies like national treasure. Of course both of them. Yeah, both of them. So the question on everybody’s mind right now is is Have you seen will you see Top Gun Maverick

Jim Denison  04:54

I have seen it and I can’t wait to see it again. Tom Cruise from what I’ve read set out to make the greatest aviation movie in history and I cannot imagine what could be better. I really can’t in that genre. I liked it better than the first one. And I liked the first one. But I just thought it was remarkably well made. I thought it was fascinating. And yeah, I have seen it once. I’ll probably see it five times.

Mark Turman  05:14

Wow. Okay. So yeah, so food. Yeah, summer is great in that way. Summer Food.

Jim Denison  05:23

I can’t eat what I used to eat back in the day. You know, hamburgers, hot dogs, that sort of thing dad love to grill out. Now my father’s heart condition was such that there was a lot he couldn’t do with us physically. But he could do that. And so he would barbecue out we would have hamburgers, hot dogs, brisket, he get up all night and cook a brisket, you know, that sort of thing. And in the summer, that tended to be a thing we’d do quite often. They would do steaks on Friday, for some reason we had steaks on Friday, you don’t know why that was steaks, baked potato, all of that. And again, that was typical in the summer as well. My parents had their own job, or their own business, dad sold electronic components, and mom ran that business. And so they had no backup for that if they didn’t work, they didn’t eat. And so vacation for us was never what a typical vacation would be when they didn’t have an employer paying them for time off. And so usually they would take turns our family’s from Kansas. And so usually mom would drive my brother and me up and drop us off with grand parents. And then my dad would drive up and pick us up and they do kind of tag teaming that way. And that was really what summer vacation was for us. I remember one summer vacation when we took the whole family and drove out to California together. And but that’s the only one I remember what we were together as a family doing vacation. So a little different for us than most people. What about you?

Mark Turman  06:32

Yeah, we had the what we call the great term in South Texas trip where

Jim Denison  06:36

we live right about that. It’s in the history books, you’re

Mark Turman  06:38

probably so we loaded up the whole not all of the family because well there were 10 of us. So there you need a bus. We didn’t have a bus, we just had a Ford station wagon. So and of course, by the time we did this, I was old enough to remember the vacation. My siblings were old enough in their teens not to really want to be in this car was represented with the rest of us. So some of the older ones were off at college. And but we we did Houston and AstroWorld back in the course. And then we went all the way down to Brownsville into Mata Morris, went to the King Ranch, went to the Alamo went to the hemisphere tower in San Antonio. And we have so many stories that still live from that trip. That was the road trip of all time started at Tyler and made that loop all the way down and back. My parents were kind of in that same boat, they were small business owners and had to figure out how to get people to cover the business while they were going to be gone. And so it was really after that trip that my parents decided that no vacation should be longer than three days. Probably for several reasons.

Jim Denison  07:45

I would imagine. Yeah. That that I can think of several reasons myself and in our story probably the same as well.

Mark Turman  07:50

Well, I want to move our conversation a little bit from general favorites to something a little bit more spiritually oriented, which is favorites around scripture favorites around the Bible, and help people to kind of understand that first thing is so many Bible translations. So I’m sure you have an awareness of just about all of them. But what is your preferred Bible translation? And why

Jim Denison  08:18

Yeah, the one I use every day is the English Standard Version. It was the NIV. For years before that, there are three as you know basic categories of which Bible translations fit. One is the literal, and that would be where they’re trying to be as literally rendering of the Greek the Hebrew Aramaic as possible. That would be New American Standard, that would be New King James, the old King James as well would be very much on a literal side. On the opposite side is a paraphrase where we’re trying to give you the idea of it. But we’re not worried about translating words per se. That would be the Living Bible or the New Living Bible. That could be the message, a paraphrase Philips translation, I tried to stay in the middle, which is dynamic equivalent, meaning that we’re going to be as literal as possible. But what we need to change the words to give you the sense that we will do that. If I say it’s raining cats and dogs, and I’m down and cube I hope the translator doesn’t say cats and dogs are falling from the sky. Even though that would be a literal translation. He would then at that point, have liberty to say it’s raining really hard, even though those weren’t my words. So a dynamic equivalent tries to do that. Well, the NIV New International Version is really in the middle there in that dynamic equivalent, but wasn’t as literal as I wished it were. The ESV is closer to literal, but not entirely. So it’d be on a spectrum, it would be a little on the literal side of the middle ground, which is the dynamic equivalent. But if I can use more than one I tried to use one from all three schools, okay, we used to check our Greek homework by the New American Standard. That’s how literal it is. I love the message. I love what has been done with that and the way that that really gives you the sense of it. The Jerusalem Bible is one of my favorite personal and the revised English Bible is my all time favorite. Personally, what used to be the new English Bible now the revised English Bible, but it’s much more a paraphrase. You wouldn’t use it to try to get a literal sense of the text, but it’s beautiful literature. I’m an anglophile anyway, If there were to me want to be would want to live in England and I’d love to have a British accent someday, right? And so that revised English Bible is a personal favorite, but on my daily use of Scripture, it’s the ESV is the thing. I’ll work out. What did I choose?

Mark Turman  10:11

So you’re trying to you’re trying to grow a British accent? Is that what I’m

Jim Denison  10:15

working on it? I used to lead groups over to Oxford with a Dallas Baptist University, the doctoral program, we do thing over there. And that was one of my agendas was when I was over there. It’s just unfair. Mark, if I had a British accent, I could say the sun is shining and it sounds like literature. They have such a built in advantage. Stuart Briscoe, you know, Alydar bag these guys. It’s just unfair to the rest

Mark Turman  10:36

of Simon Cowell. Oh, it just doesn’t had thought of him. Yes. Well, you know, he takes every advantage he can get as Yes, yeah. For me, I lean a little bit more in the direction of the paraphrase. Probably because the first Bible that was ever given to me was a Living Bible, the Old Greenwood, they’ll agree, I still have it, have it all tabbed. And one of the persons that was really instrumental in me coming to faith gave this Bible to me, put a note in it said read the story of Jesus, Matthew chapter one, and read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John get the whole story of Jesus. Let me know if you have questions. And so that was the first Bible that I ever owned. Personally, the only other Bible I’d ever known was this massive King James Bible. Was it white? Bread, fam Oh, this is when we ground sat on the coffee table on the coffee table, my parents Bible. I remember opening it as a kid, you could hear it Creek as it felt like the leather was breaking. And there was this picture of Jesus that really did not inspire me very much on the inside. That was the only Bible that I had ever seen. Home for almost 20 years until this friend of mine handed me the Living Bible. Today. i From my personal use mostly will enjoy reading the New Living Translation, which is excellent whether I don’t know how I don’t know what barrier they have to cross before it becomes for when a paraphrase turns into a translation. But they call it a translation even though it grew out of that paraphrase. And in recent days, I have started to use more and more the Christian Standard Bible, yes, which is in the direction that the Holman Christian Standard, Paul, what was originally called the Holman, Christian Standard Bible, now they just call it the Christian Standard Bible, which is in the direction of ESV. Probably, maybe you can tell us lands in between the ESV and NIV. Exactly. So kind of in that space a little bit. And just that readability is again, still looking for the close accuracy of translation, but readability is a big part of that as well. So out of that favorite scripture, I think I could guess a couple of your favorites. But what are one or two of the absolute fundamental verses and or paragraphs that that really anchor your

Jim Denison  13:00

faith? Yeah, Romans 835. And following is the passage that of all passages is just encouraged me so much over the years. So I grew up in a wonderful home but no spiritual life, all my dad’s questions, and I’ve from then to today have struggled with Grace has struggled with the sense that I’m not what I do. You know, I just have this driven it’s about me the sense that I am my, my latest sermon, or the last article I wrote, or the last podcast I’ve recorded or whatever. And I constantly need to be reminded, you know, of what Romans eight says, Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? I haven’t memorized actually in the King James, my pastoral I became a Christian preached from the King James Right. And so my first Bible was a Living Bible. And my second was a King James Schofield. 1909 Schofield Study Bible, which was itself very much the King James as well. So it’s in that passage that that paragraph just lives in my heart, Who shall separate us from the love of Christ Shall tribulation or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or peril or short? As it is written for the sake were killed all the day long recanted a sheep for the slaughter, knee and all these things we are more than conquerors to Him who loved us. For I am persuaded. Paul said I’m convinced that neither death nor life nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, I love that phrase, nor any other creature shall be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord, to know that I am loved that unambiguously, that unconditionally, nothing I can do to make God love me anymore or love me any less, has been a very important truth in my life and something I come back to quite often.

Mark Turman  14:26

So how long have you had that memorized?

Jim Denison  14:29

I never tried to memorize it. Oddly enough, it just lives in me. The second sermon I ever preached I quoted it, and discovered I could. I was back in college my freshman year in college, I was preaching a sermon out of Romans 12 One and Two that was was my text in the day, and I don’t remember why but I quoted that as part of the sermon and discovered I could, it’s never anything I tried to memorize. It just has always lived in my soul

Mark Turman  14:51

just kind of got etched there by by the Spirit and, and familiarity and it’s, it’s just come to live there. I quoted it 1000s of times I’m sense yeah. Well, we do have a number of similarities. We talked about the fact that you and I preached from Romans 12, one and two as our first sermons. Yes. And we’re hoping nobody ever goes and finds those sermons. I would hope that would be great passage we just point people back to the passage not to our sermons. Paul did it better than we did. That’s for sure. Yes. And we always want to keep returning people to that. But my favorite grows out of Romans eight very first Bible verse I ever remember even hearing, much less memorizing verse 28, verse 28, and I’m 1617 years old, I’m working in a grocery store, having conversations with a high school friend about faith. And my friend, Bob, who was an assistant manager at the store. This was his life verse. And we got into a spiritual conversation. One evening, as we were with the store had closed and all the team was cleaning up the store, getting it ready for the next day was before the days of 24 hour, grocery store business. And we were in this conversation. And I can remember, he said to me, I want to share my life verse with you, I could almost take you to the exact tile on the floor in this building, where I remember him sharing this verse for the first time. And he shared it in the New American Standard Version four, we know that all things work together for good for those who love God and are called according to His purpose. And from borrow one of your phrases from then till now, that has just stayed etched in my brain. And I would later hear my pastor and other pastors talk about it, I can remember my pastor preaching on it one Sunday, a couple of years later, after I’d become a Christ follower. He said, The passage the verses is as important for what it doesn’t say it’s for what it does say, it doesn’t say that everything that happens is good. There’s lots of things in we we spend a lot of our time in our ministry talking about things that are not good in this world. It’s not saying that everything that happens is good. It’s not saying that God causes everything. A lot of times, as my pastor said, In that sermon, God gets blamed for things he didn’t do. God didn’t cause a shooting in an elementary school. God doesn’t cause cancer, God, God doesn’t cause a lot of these things. There’s a lot of answers and a lot of theology that we can unpack around that and sometimes do. It also doesn’t say that everything works out well or perfectly for everybody, that there is the absolute essential that you be in right relationship with God that you experienced the grace, you just talked about, that you become a part of his family through a relationship with Christ. And that’s the only assurance that that verse gives you that things will turn out right and what I, what I love about this verse is, it points to God’s engagement with us that he’s not he didn’t just set the world up and spin it like a top and throw it out into the universe and walk away and say, I’ll come back sometime later, he’s actively involved. And that if we keep putting all of the various pieces and experiences of our life into his hands, he will weave it into something that brings him glory and is in his for our ultimate good. It’s beautiful. And, and being confident of that just even in the darkest, difficult times of my life coming back to that and saying, you know, this doesn’t make sense. And that doesn’t make sense. And this is unbearable. sadness or brokenness, such as the school shooting recently. How do you make sense of any of that is, as a friend of mine said to me recently, as we talked about this, your brain and your heart is trying to make sense of that which is nonsensical. And that’s what your brain is supposed to do. But it’s simply not possible, in this case. And but then knowing that, that God is big enough, gracious enough, and capable of bringing all of this to a place, that is for His glory, and our good is just simply remarkable. Another verse that you want to share

Jim Denison  19:21

Philippians 413 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me something I’ve reminded god of over the years. Lord, you said this up. And again, and I would say it the way your pastor said it, it’s important for what it doesn’t say as well as for what it does say, you know, doesn’t say I can do all things, says I can do all things through Christ. And that’s the one who is strengthening me to the degree that he is strengthening me I can do all things through Christ. I have to allow him to strengthen me. I have to be connected I have to be plugged in I have to be submitted have to be surrendered. Just as God gets blamed for a lot of things he didn’t do. I blame God for a lot of things he didn’t do because I wouldn’t let him do it. Because I wanted to do it myself and then blamed him when it didn’t turn out well, because the day didn’t go the way it should have, and I never gave it to him. And then I wondered why he didn’t use it. You know, what God can lead, those will follow, he can give or receive, and so forth. Start every day by being empowered, submitted, strengthen Ephesians 518 being filled with a spirit. I have often said self sufficiency, spiritual suicide, I didn’t have to read that new book. I know that myself. And so I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me to the degree that he is strengthening me, it’s a present tense in degree to Christ, who is right now strengthening me is Paul’s idea. I have a choice to make. I can be the Laodiceans where he stands outside knocking, and waiting for me to open the door, or I can be Paul submitted to His power and therefore experiencing His grace. It’s my decision. And it’s a present tense binary decision we make depend on him depend on me, his glory, my glory. Someone told me years ago, if you want to get along with God, stay off his throne. He doesn’t share His glory. And so if I because he’d be an idolatry, if he did, it’s not that he’s an egotist. It’s that if he let us get his glory, He would allow us to make ourselves idols. And he loves us too much for that. And so yeah, we could talk on and on about it. But that just that verse and the idea of being connected, plugged in, submit it to the Holy Spirit, so that he can then bring about in my life, what he wants to bring about through my life. Frederick Victor says, It must happen in us before it can happen through us. And there’s really a sense of that, I think, in that verse,

Mark Turman  21:23

right? So many great verses, in Philippians, in all of Paul’s writings, you know, work out your salvation with fear and trembling. More recently, even this past Sunday, Jesus is common in John 517, where he says My father is is always at work, and I’m working to, and just that confidence that again, he is engaged with us, and it’s active around us, even when we can’t perceive it, we get glimpses, and we we are confident that we’re hopeful of that. But just knowing that they are constantly at work way beyond what we ever imagined, or think or comprehend. And knowing that we are not alone in that way. Is is so comforting. So favorite Bible character, of Jesus given Okay, let’s just put that out there. Jesus is a given. Man, we just put God the Father, Jesus in the Holy Spirit is a given. But beyond that biblical character that is your favorite?

Jim Denison  22:22

Well, I probably would have to say to the first is Peter, because he and I have exactly the same motto in life. If in doubt, talk. I just love all Peter until something good counsel, some UNFCC. And if he might say something, you know, he’s the one on the boat Lord have hit you. Let me come to you on the water. You know, he’s the one at the Mount of Transfiguration. Lord, it’s so good for us to be here, aren’t you glad we’re here. And I identify with that this idea of, of talking until you know, something to say, you know, and so, but really, if I could only pick one, it would be so called Doubting Thomas. I think that’s a very unfair way to understand Thomas, he was so courageous that when Jesus said He was going to Jerusalem to die was Thomas, it said, Let us go with him that we made eye with him. He was just asking the question everybody had, you know, that was his heart, and it’s my heart as well. I’ve always been that skeptic that really needed more than always wanted to ask the hard questions and wanted to get to some answers, you know, just the way my wiring works. And so Thomas has always given me permission to be who I guess I am. In that sense. Now, my wife would be Paul, she would say that I’m probably more like Paul than any other biblical character. And we don’t mean that, that I’m anything like Paul, I’m negative and insensitive, his capacities, I don’t mean that, but in the sense of what God called him to do has been in some way similar to what God’s called me to do over the years. So there’s maybe some alignment there a little bit from maybe an intellectual apostle, sort of an idea, but the one I’m most resonate with would be Thomas. Okay, what about you?

Mark Turman  23:46

Well, you pick two, so I’ll pick two, when I would pick would be Timothy. My pastor was named Paul. And so that’s just kind of fell into this rhythm or where as he mentored me, as he taught me, I kept inserting myself into Okay, as Paul poured his life mentored and lead by example, to Timothy, this feels like that. And we sometimes tell people use you, everybody needs a Paul, everybody needs a Barnabas, everybody needs a Timothy, you know, those kinds of relationships of who’s mentoring you, who’s walking with you? Who are you helping? Who are you pouring into? Sometimes I’ve read Paul’s letters to Timothy by inserting my own name in there almost to the point of, I just read my own name when I read the letter, as if that were being written to me in that way as someone’s protege in the faith. And knowing that one of the beautiful things about the Christian life is this dynamic of being in community and having teachers and mentors and having Barnabas is and people that walk with you and that type of thing. That just I love when he says in Second Timothy, you know who you learned these things from And then there was this deep connection of relationship there. So that’s always been a favorite of mine. Going back to when you and I met in seminary, my seminary days, I had a great 40 years ago, 80 years ago, light years old. One of the Old Testament professors, David garland at seminary caused me to fall in love with Daniel. And what I love about Daniel in the story that we see about Daniel is not only his, nevertheless kind of faith, you know, we if you don’t, King says, If you don’t bow to me, we’re throwing you in the fire and he and his friends, nevertheless, we were not bowing and we have a nevertheless kind of faith if you read it in the, in the New American Standard. But what I also love about Daniel, especially in the first chapter, I learned this in that class, Daniel was not only committed to doing what was right in God’s eyes, he wanted to do it in the right way. We talked about in the New Testament, since we talk all the time about speaking the truth in love. Daniel was doing that when he was carried into exile as a promising young man. They only took the what they thought were the best of the best right left, everybody else behind took the best of the best, so as to indoctrinate them into the culture of Babylon and use their gifts for their advantage. And Daniel, Daniel is committed to staying in the identity that he knows he has from God. But he is not mean about it. He when when the king says you have to feed them our food so that they will learn to eat like us, and then talk like us and think like us, will give them our names. They do all of that to indoctrinate them. But he’s so concerned for the butler that he says, hey, just let us let me try our diet that we learned as Hebrews. And, and let’s try it for a few days. And if we’re not doing well, we’ll eat your food. Because the Butler says, look, if I don’t give you what the king told me to give you, it’s gonna be my head on the block. And I just learned I can remember walking around the seminary campus in Fort Worth telling my wife coming up to the final. She tells me Are you ready for the final? I was like, Well, let me tell you everything I know. And so I told her virtually everything I could remember from a semester of being in this class with Dr. Garland. And by time we went around the campus couple times, she said, I think you’ll do fine. Which was a credit to the professor not to me, he literally kept me on the edge of my seat the whole semester.

Jim Denison  27:41

And if he would know David garland, you would No, he was not as a lecturer, as a scholar. He was not this bombastic personality at all, you know. And so he was very gracious kind of had that Southern. He was my Hebrew professor as well. And I loved him so grateful for him. But but he could be riveting by virtue of how much he loved the text, how much he loved the word and how God brought it to life through him. So that’s awesome.

Mark Turman  28:02

Yeah, so to finish up, because we’re just about out of time for our brief first episode here, I’ll tell you a David garland story. Okay. So I had him the very last semester of my experience at Southwestern seminary. So when graduation comes, we’re at the church there where we graduated, and we’re in the basement and everyone’s getting their robes and gowns and hats and everything. And I’m walking through the basement hallway, and he’s coming the other way sees me and says, Oh, Mark, I am glad I caught you. The registrar needs to see you. There’s something wrong with your paperwork. And I don’t know that you’re gonna get to graduate today. And I just turned white and nearly fainted at that moment. Because not only was he completely serious in his demeanor. I just revered him so much. I just knew he would never tell me anything that was wrong. And I just complete I think my heart stopped for two or three minutes. And he started to walk away. And he saw how distressed I was. And he let me off the hook. And,

Jim Denison  29:10

and so it’s the nice ones you got to watch out for. Yeah, I

Mark Turman  29:13

I think I still love him just as much as I did when I was sitting in his class. But it was it was cardiac arrest at that moment. Because I knew that if I didn’t appear upstairs and on that stage, there’s no telling what might have happened to me including divorce at that point. But it was a fabulous time. The Daniels always been one of my favorites from that time to this time,

Jim Denison  29:38

Daniel stories in the Bible, not for his sake, but for our sake. And I really think we’re getting closer all the time to a culture very much like this. You know, where we’re living in a world where we’re exiles and their own culture, where we’re living in a wave where we’re having to negotiate what the demand what the culture demands of us, and you know, what Scripture teaches us and how to do it in a winsome way. How to do it a gracious way where we’re where people have conviction, but we’re also People have compassion, right? And how to do both of those things together as something Daniel proves God can do in our hearts.

Mark Turman  30:05

Well, we want to thank you for being a part of our conversation today. We did brevity, we Yeah, we’re we’re trying to keep our promise. You know, we have a promise that we’re trying to hold up. And we would hope that you would, if you don’t have a consistent Bible reading plan, we would absolutely urge you in that direction, lots of different ways to get into the Bible. On a consistent and daily basis. We know that the Bible says that it is both milk and meat for our soul. And regardless of what your schedule or rhythms are, during the summer, you need that time with God, you need that time in His Word, and we are Jim a generation that has access to the Bible more than any other people that ever have. We can read it. A lot of us own multiple versions of the Bible. You can get it on your smartphone, which would make your phone the smartest thing about your smartphone would be having the Bible and being able to access that and lots of different ways to do that. But if you need help with that, please look out. contact us through email contact. Your pastor asked for suggestions, lots of good ways to get into God’s word and to get to know him better through His Word. Lots of good books out there, which is what we’ll talk about in our next episode. But there’s no book like the Bible. Talk to you soon.