This conversation explores the current situation in Israel, focusing on the aftermath of the October 7th attacks by Hamas. The speakers share personal experiences and insights into the existential threats facing Israel, including external enemies and internal divisions within society. They discuss the resilience of the Israeli people amidst ongoing conflict and the impact of hostage situations on the nation. The conversation emphasizes the importance of prayer and support for Israel during these challenging times.
In this conversation, the speakers discuss the multifaceted nature of the Israeli conflict, emphasizing the importance of international support, personal connections, and the complexities of political dynamics. They explore potential future scenarios for Israel, the significance of friendships across cultural divides, and the distinction between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism. The conversation concludes with reflections on community, hope, and the power of prayer for peace in the region.
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Topics
- (09:55): Personal Experiences and Perspectives from Israel
- (19:56): The Existential Threats Facing Israel
- (30:14): Internal Divisions and Social Dynamics in Israel
- (39:51): Resilience Amidst Ongoing Conflict
- (42:42): Imagining Possible Futures for Israel
- (46:35): The Complexity of Victory and Politics
- (49:19): Friendships Across Divides
- (56:08): Understanding Anti-Zionism vs Anti-Semitism
- (01:03:20): Finding Solace and Hope in Community
Resources
About Danny Lampel
Danny Lampel is an Israeli citizen and tour guide. Since 1980, he has guided tours of Israel for many Christian groups from all over the world. He also worked as a Marketing Director for the Spanish-speaking segment of one of the leading tour operators in Israel. Danny studied social work and graduated with a master’s degree in community work from the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. He and his wife have two daughters and four grandchildren.
About Dr. Mike Fanning
Mike Fanning is the founder and president of MBF Enterprises, “a group tour operations company that specializes in organizing, marketing and leading unique, one-of-a-kind trips. These trips include pilgrimage tours to Israel, Jordan and Egypt, as well as “Journeys of Paul” cruise tours to Greece, Turkey and Italy.” He holds a PhD in Hebrew Bible (Old Testament), Ancient Near Eastern Archaeology, Modern Middle East History, Anthropology, and Hebrew/Greek from Baylor University.
About Dr. Jim Denison
Jim Denison, PhD, is a cultural theologian and the founder and CEO of Denison Ministries. He speaks biblically into significant cultural issues at Denison Forum. He is the chief author of The Daily Article and has written more than 30 books, including The Coming Tsunami, the Biblical Insight to Tough Questions series, and The Fifth Great Awakening.
About Dr. Mark Turman
Dr. Mark Turman is the Executive Director of Denison Forum and Vice President of Denison Ministries. Among his many duties, Turman is most notably the host of The Denison Forum Podcast. He is also the chief strategist for DF Pastors, which equips pastors and church leaders to understand and transform today’s culture.
About Denison Forum
Denison Forum exists to thoughtfully engage the issues of the day from a biblical perspective through The Daily Article email newsletter and podcast, The Denison Forum Podcast, as well as many books and additional resources.
Episode Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was AI-generated and has not been fully edited.
Mark Turman (00:02.062)
Welcome. This is the Denison forum podcast. I’m Mark Turman, your host for today’s conversation. I want to remind you of what we always seek to do in these conversations is to let you eavesdrop on important conversations that we’re having in the hopes that it will equip you, to think more biblically, to live holy and to serve in every redemptive way. And, we’re going to do that today around the topic of what it is like to be on the ground in Israel today. many of you. Know what it is like when you hear the numbers, nine one one call nine one one that alerts us in ways that are very visceral and very significant in our culture. But you also know that when you hear the number nine 11, that takes you down a different path, but also causes you to have an alert and visceral reaction. Today, we are recording on November the seventh. We are 13 months post. What happened on October the seventh, 2023. And that was the day that you will remember that Israel was attacked in a horrendous kind of way by the terrorist group Hamas, who came from the South through the region known as Gaza. And that has resulted for the last 13 months in what we understand to be the Israel Gaza, but might properly be termed the Israel-Hamas war.
And, we’re going to talk today with one of our good friends, Danny Lample, going to let one of our other friends, Mike Fanning introduce him in just a moment, but joining us for the conversation is our co-founder and cultural apologist, Dr. Jim Dennison. We’re grateful to have him on this conversation with us. We also have Dr. Mike Fanning who is joining us. Mike is the president of MBF enterprises. That does a number of things, but particularly leads Bible study tours in various places, Israel being the lead. And we’ve not been able to travel with Mike back to Israel for now more than a year that grieves us deeply. But Mike is a graduate of Baylor university has a PhD in biblical archeology and the Hebrew Bible among other things. for those that don’t know Mike looks at Israel kind of like his backyard. He has been there so many times. additionally, Dr. Dennison has been to Israel more than 30 times. Some of you listening to this have been with him and with us to Israel. And when you get there to that wonderful, most incredible place, one of the people that we have had the privilege of introducing you to is Danny Lample. And I’m going to just, let Mike.
Take a moment now and just introduce him. But before that, because once Mike gets started, it’s hard to stop him. Okay. But we’re going to let Mike, we’re going to let Jim have the first word. Jim, tell us about your friendship with Danny so that we get the real story, the true story before Mike’s doc starts talking. And then tell us a little bit about what your thoughts about Israel are from the things that you’ve been following, reading and understanding in recent days. Jim, the floor is yours.
Jim Denison (03:16.51)
Well, that’s frightening. Mark, thank you very much for the privilege of doing this. And what an honor to be on this conversation really with you and Mike and especially with Danny. So when Mike and I first went to Israel together back in the year 2000, Danny was our tour guide back at that very first experience that we had. And from that time to this, he has been there for every time that we have been there every time I have been there. I mean, Mike has lived there for two years. Mike’s done hundreds of trips over, but and I’ve been over more than 30 times, as you said. And Danny has over these years just been not only an incredibly dear friend to me,
A brilliant tour leader and guide. Multiple languages. He’s speaking today in English in his third or fourth language that he communicates in regularly. But just a very dear personal friend as well. When our oldest son went through cancer about 10 years ago, Danny prayed for him every day and reached out regularly to tell us that he was praying for us. And I love Danny. I’m just so grateful for him and for Inez and their family and just so glad to be in this conversation with him. So Dr. Fanning will hopefully be nice to him in just a bit and introduce him yet.
Yet again to us, but by way of some perspective here, there’s been so much in the news recently that we would think of as good news relative to how Israel has been able to respond to Hamas and to Hezbollah’s leadership and Iran. And so I’m afraid that some in the States are beginning to think that we don’t really need to be praying as fervently, that we don’t need to be as concerned for Israel as we at one point thought a few months ago we did. And I would be here to say that I don’t think that’s true. I would tell you that Iran is, I think, more of an existential threat to Israel than it’s been even previously.
From what I’m reading, their supreme leader is now beginning to waver on whether or not nuclear weapons would be permitted if Iran considers itself to be facing an existential threat. Surah two, verse 190 in the Quran requires Muslims to defend Islam. And so there’s a school of thought that the recent successes are pushing Iran into a corner that could cause Iran to be an existential threat to Israel on a level we haven’t even seen to this point. With Hamas and Hezbollah, there’s been great
Progress there but still enormous reserves of manpower on both sides of people that are pledged to Israel’s destruction Iran and Russia have equipped the Houthis to the south to be a genuine threat to Israel and World commerce and trade through the Red Sea There’s still the great deal of internal dissension within Israel itself So so many reasons to be praying for Israel in these very difficult days and then I would add this I would personally ask believers to be praying for Danny for his friends and for those that do what he does
Jim Denison (05:41.366)
It’s been extremely difficult, as you can imagine, since the October 7th invasion for those that are in the travel and tourism industry who really give Israel to the world to be able to do what they do so well. And so I’m praying for them personally. I’m praying for their for their safety. I’m praying for God to continue to sustain them professionally. And I’m just praying for Israel to again soon be that place of peace that we’re called to pray for, to pray for the peace of Jerusalem.
Mark Turman (05:51.792)
Hmm.
Jim Denison (06:07.534)
and pray for the peace of Israel. And I’m really excited to hear Danny share with us what it’s like today to live in this holy land in the face of an existential threat they haven’t seen really in 70 years. So I hope this conversation equips us to understand better what’s happening so that we could pray even more fervently and more effectively. And with that, I’ll ask Dr. Fanning, Mike and I have been friends in seminary days. Mike, we went to seminary when we were in kindergarten, I think. Isn’t that about right? Yeah. We’re nowhere near this old, right?
Mike Fanning (06:33.68)
Yeah, we did. And Jim, well, you know what? And when I was in kindergarten, that’s when I first met Danny. Well, you know what? I kind of looked at him as one of my elders, yeah, back then. No, I’ve known Danny how many years? It’s 30. No, it’s been 40, 40 years.
Mark Turman (06:34.724)
Yeah.
Jim Denison (06:41.902)
Well, there you go. Yeah. And he was old even then, wasn’t he? Wasn’t he kind of ancient of days even back in, you know?
Jim Denison (06:50.188)
Yeah, exactly. Mentor of mentors.
Danny (06:56.651)
Too many. Mm-hmm. Four. Yeah.
Mike Fanning (07:02.64)
I knew him, Jim, even before we started going to Israel. I would go with my dad, who was a pastor, and we would, we met and it was like, every time we went, it would be Danny. So I’m gonna be short and sweet and nice, which I know is quite a shock.
Mark Turman (07:22.734)
We’ll believe it when we hear it. Right. Danny.
Jim Denison (07:24.264)
That’s right.
Mike Fanning (07:25.396)
Exactly. Danny grew up in Uruguay and he met his wife there. They immigrated to Israel. I can’t remember the year, but he’s been in Israel most of his life. Danny and Inez, they have two daughters, awesome, Maya and Tali. They’re twins. They’re married. They each have two kids. So Danny spends his time and money and energy with his grandkids. Yeah, exactly.
Jim Denison (07:51.992)
Mainly it’s money. Yeah, that’s right.
Mike Fanning (07:55.28)
And so, you know, I will tell you one story that I think is great. And I’m going to say something nice about Danny and then that’s it. But I remember, Jim, I think it was in 2020, was it 2024? No, it was 2023, right after COVID.
Jim Denison (08:17.688)
Is this when you put the sugar in your backpack and you had to carry it through the… okay. okay. All right.
Mike Fanning (08:19.896)
No, that was a whole nother trip when he did that and we can go into all the other stuff that he’s done, but I
Mark Turman (08:21.872)
Ha
Jim Denison (08:25.87)
After you get all the silverware from the restaurant in his backpack. Is that, is that. okay. All right.
Mike Fanning (08:29.616)
I can’t remember that part of it, but I do remember this. We were getting ready to come home and at that time the US government required us to take a COVID test to get on the plane. Well, everybody took a COVID test, they’re fine. And I took mine, I was at the end of the line and the guy goes, well, you got COVID. I go, there’s no way. I mean, I feel fine. And he goes, no. So I got to spend…
Jim Denison (08:42.488)
Yes, I did.
Mike Fanning (08:56.556)
seven days in a glorious place. It was called the Dan Boutique Hotel. Let me just tell you this. there was nothing about it that reminded me of either Danny or Boutique. And it was a government run COVID hotel for people like me that had COVID. They delivered my meals in a plastic bag and set it out front of my door, knocked on the door every day.
Mike Fanning (09:27.074)
It was quite fun. The only good thing about it was I had my computer there and it was master’s week. So I got to watch the masters the whole time. But at the end of my stay, Danny invited me to spend Yom Kippur with, no, yeah. Was it Yom Kippur? No, it was Passover. It was Passover. He invited me to spend Passover.
Danny (09:44.447)
No.
Jim Denison (09:51.554)
How quickly they forget, Danny. How quickly they forget.
Mike Fanning (09:55.566)
with his entire family seven days after I had COVID. And yeah, I tested positive, but I got to spend Passover in Jerusalem with Danny and his family. And it’s something I will never, ever, ever forget. No, I didn’t actually. I wanted to make sure, but the fact that he invited me to come over, it was awesome. So anyway, all that to say, I’ve known Danny a long, long time. I’m gonna start this off by just saying,
Jim Denison (10:11.138)
And then you give them more COVID, Nope.
Danny (10:13.217)
haha
Mike Fanning (10:26.001)
How are you doing? How’s your family doing? How are all our friends doing? 13 months after October 7th.
Danny (10:35.677)
Okay, it’s a complicated question and it requires a complicated answer. Basically, we’re all okay, I guess. Health-wise, money-wise, nobody’s starving of hunger. We all are families and more or less, and let me stress that, more or less, we’re okay. It goes way beyond that, as a matter of regarding what Dr. Dennison said a while ago. Basically, we’re all kind of bored, especially those of us who are in the tourism trade, not only hotels and bus drivers and tour guides, airports and porters and airline stuff. I mean, it’s a very long, long, long, long list. And we’re doing basically as individuals, most of us, we’re doing okay, but that’s not the problem is that the country is not doing very well. I’m going to try very, very, very, very hard to avoid any and all political issues. It doesn’t matter what side of the political map you are. People feel that, and Dr. Dennison just mentioned that, that we have a very important existentialist problem. Okay? It’s not only Hamas.
It’s not only Iran, it’s Houthis in Yemen, it’s the Iraqi pro-Iranian forces in Iraq, it’s a Syrian, I mean, whoever is shooting at us from Syria and Lebanon, of course. But it’s like we’re surrounded by a wall of enemies. And it goes way, way beyond the fact of getting hold of some territory in the Judea Samaria or in the Gaza Strip or in Lebanon, way beyond. It’s an existential problem. There are a couple of countries that have decided and proclaimed that what they’re seeking is the extermination of the state of Israel as it is. And that’s our problem. Not necessarily if the price of tomatoes is $5 a kilo, which is exorbitant for Israel.
Danny (13:01.409)
It used to be one of the main exporters of tomatoes. It’s not that the cost of life has increased tenfold in the last 13 months. That’s not the problem. It is a problem, of course, and we’re all struggling to make ends meet. But that’s not the problem. The problem goes way beyond that. What kind of a world, what kind of a country are we going to wake up to tomorrow?
Danny (13:28.999)
Like Mike said, I mean, we know each other for 40 years. Dr. Dennison and me, know each other for 20 something years. Mark is a newcomer for us, only a couple of years. Okay, we’re done. I mean, my generation, we’re done. We did what we did, we worked what we worked, we saved what we saved, we contributed what we could. That’s not the main issue. The issue today is what kind of a future are we giving to our children and our grandchildren.
The other day we had a very interesting conversation with a friend of us that lives in Spain. So he has a grandson, he’s turning 18, and the big problem they have is what kind of a school and what kind of a major the grandson is going to choose.
Danny (14:18.145)
I have one grandson that’s going to turn 18. He’s going to be drafted in August next year. So our main concern is not what kind of a school is going to go. It’s not what he’s going to be majoring in. Our main concern is, is he going to survive? Is he going to survive the three and something years of his, of his military service? So.
Mark Turman (14:36.784)
Hmm.
Danny (14:48.113)
I do not know if I’m trying, if I’m managing to transmit how we feel. It’s, you wake up in the morning, me, myself, I try not to listen to the news early in the morning. That was one of my day, I mean, the rest of the day. We live in Jerusalem, which is quote unquote, quiet. We only had three instances in which we had the Assyrians waking us up or really frightening us.
But my daughter lives in Tel Aviv. had a siren, a couple of alarms yesterday. of them. Okay. And I have a cousin that used to live next to the Lebanese border, not anymore. He has been at home for the last nine or 10 months or so. Plus I have another friend that used to live in a caput right next to the Gaza Strip. He’s not been able to return yet. So we are the few fortunate ones.
If you go to Tel Aviv, it’s a different world altogether. mean, bars are full and restaurants are full and you know, you get the impression that the beaches are full, or where? It’s getting cool now. But you get the impression that everything is okay, but it isn’t. isn’t. I mean, underlying that reality, there’s another constant anxiety and fear. What are we going to do? What is it that we’re going to do?
just like many other, I mean, many millions of today Israelis, we at the time chose to come to Israel because it represented to us a couple of high standards. Okay, we thought this was the land of the Lord. We thought this is where you could be close. I I fell in love with Jerusalem, not because Jerusalem is nice, but because it talked to me, the stones talked to me. I know this sounds crazy, but that’s true.
So we chose to come here. We decided to build our life here. Maybe, maybe, just maybe. I mean, it wasn’t the right decision. It was for many years, no doubt about that. And the worst thing of all, I know where this is going, that Hostgott is going, and I’m going to be very frank and very candid. Some of you, most of you know me very well. I’ve been a believer. I’ve prayed all my life. I tried to live by the principles of the Bible.
Mike Fanning (17:07.524)
Mm-mm-mm.
Danny (17:16.129)
I’m losing my faith very quickly, very, quickly. I’m trying to look for the Lord everywhere and it’s getting very, very hard to find it. Very, very hard to find. I still pray every day instead of the news. I pray. But, you know, for some little ray of hope.
Mark Turman (17:19.184)
Hmm.
Danny (17:46.033)
not necessarily something specific or very earthly, but you know maybe some sign that will comfort us spiritually more than anything else. And so far, so maybe Dr. Nissen, you can help, maybe Mark, you can help us about that.
Mark Turman (18:04.654)
Well, now, will certainly, intensify our prayers. Cause I just, you know, we, we know, certainly Mike and Jim know even on a much grander scale than I do, just what, a tender and genuine heart of faith that you have and is, is painful to me and to us to hear.
Just that spiritual and internal emotional and, and mental struggle, that you and the entire country are having, and, and something that we, you know, obviously can’t understand, but definitely feel with you. and, what I would say to you, to Danny and to, to all of your friends and family and countrymen is I don’t know how this happens. a recent definition of compassion came to me that I think is the best I’ve ever heard in my life, which is compassion means that your pain is in my heart. And that we would say to you in every way that it can possibly happen. That is where we are with you and with all of Israel, your pain and the pain of your country is in our hearts and we’ll continue to motivate, inspire and drive our prayers.
I’m wondering, you know, had the last time I was in Israel with you, that first evening was just being able to walk down this beautiful boardwalk in Tel Aviv and to experience the ocean and all of the development. was fresh development going on along this two or three mile stretch. just one of the most beautiful places, is it, and as you pointed out, it’s.
It’s hard for everyone in Israel, but it’s not hard in every, the, in every way. The same is Tel Aviv kind of the cutoff line to the North. as far as where you would find people being in restaurants and going to the beach, that type of thing. we traveled, some of our time with Mike and Jim into Haifa and places to the North on one of our trips. talk a little bit about those tens of.
Mark Turman (20:26.436)
Thousands hundred thousand people that have been displaced in Israel and are still not able to go home. is that north of Tel Aviv? Talk a little bit about those people.
Danny (20:40.265)
Okay, the lines are very clear. Okay, you have the southern line, which would be to the south of the city of Versheva, right outside the outskirts of Versheva and then on the coastline, Ashkelon and Ardob. People to the south of that, many of them are evacuated, mainly about four or five kilometers from the Gaza border. There are efforts to slowly, very gradually restore many of the houses were destroyed on the borderline between Gaza and Israel. So their ongoing works in order to restore some of the places and allow people to go back. I don’t know the numbers. In the Middle East, numbers have a political meaning. you know, if you say 120,000 people have abdicated from the…
Mike Fanning (21:13.22)
Thank you.
Danny (21:36.555)
from the border in the south and the Gaza Strip, that is a very bad commentary for the government. you say 15,000, it doesn’t sound like that. But the southern northern numbers, but a lot of people. So many of those people actually move further north in the outskirts of Pershing or the city of Pershing and then further north to Arad and some other places on the coast. That’s the story of the South. In the northern part of the country, which most of us know very well, I mean, we’re talking about the Zaria Philippi. Again, we’re talking about the Golan Heights. I mean, we’ve been there. As a matter of fact, three of us have been on the border between Lebanon and Israel overlooking the country of Lebanon. I mean, we talked about Mar Zayoun, about the village that you could see from almost every place that we went.
Mark Turman (22:24.964)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Danny (22:34.923)
So it took us a little bit more time to get the idea that those people had to be evacuated. And as a matter of fact, it went further down to the south to no avail. mean, what happened is that today, Hezbollah is being shelling all the area to the north, Haifa, including Acre that we many times visited. So again, it’s like there’s no safe haven, which is actually true.
As I said before, I’m going to repeat myself. The people of Tula V, in spite of the fact that we’re very resilient, and we are very, very resilient, okay? As I said, Mark, as you said before, we still go to restaurants, we go to the movies, we go to concerts whenever they’re available, whenever civil defense allows us. mean, many times you say no more than 500 people in a closed place. But anyway So we’re very resilient, but still, I mean, you get the feeling that this is a country in war. There’s no way of escaping that. Let me give you something else to think about, okay? On a normal week in Israel, there were 42 airlines flying in and out of Israel. 42 different airlines, including, I mean, Turkish airlines had 14 flights a week. That is two flights a day. All right?
All the American Airlines were here. You know how many airlines we have flying right now? Five. by the way, including two from the Arab Emirates. Okay, fly Dubai and Emirates. Those did not cancel. United canceled, American canceled, Delta, no Delta. Lufthansa Group, okay, and so on and so forth. So, you know, if you ever felt
Mark Turman (24:10.895)
Wow.
Danny (24:32.799)
that you were living in a little island surrounded by enemies? Okay. And there’s only one way, actually there two ways of getting out of Israel. One of them is renting a little jet and flying to either Greece or Cyprus, or the other way is to buy a ticket with one of the three airlines that’s Israeli. They do not cancel in spite of all the risks, of course, and they are. There are risks.
Mark Turman (24:57.552)
Hmm.
Danny (25:02.805)
You fly with one of them to Cyprus and then you continue with India or an airline to your next destination. In SME, had plans to travel to, as we usually do, to spend some time with a cousin of mine who lives in Florida. British Airways canceled our flights three times. And eventually, of course, we had to cancel, so we booked with Elan. There’s no other choice.
And we’re paying twice as much or even more. But, and again, it doesn’t help to your feeling of being under constant threat and there’s no way out. You’re enclosed by walls, invisible walls. Okay? But there’s still walls. So that’s it.
Mark Turman (25:43.248)
Hmm.
Mike Fanning (25:50.468)
Danny, I got a question and I don’t want to keep on this, on a Debbie Downer kind of subject, but you’re talking about external threats. You haven’t even touched on, which I think may be even a greater threat. And that’s the problem going on within the Israeli society. As we speak, between the Orthodox and the secular between different political parties are fighting and.
Mike Fanning (26:19.328)
And the whole idea that the, which you touched on the whole idea that, that what a lot of Arab Muslim countries want to do is make it so unlivable that people just leave Israel. so can you talk a little bit about the, the other dynamic you talk about the external threats, but there’s also internal threats within Israel itself, which nobody seems to talk about, but which I think is really.
For me, as somebody who goes there and has friends there, it seems to be even just as dangerous as external.
Danny (26:58.657)
Excellent question. I wish I had a good answer. I don’t. We are a divided country. There’s no doubt about that. We are a divided country because we have one third of the country that, you know what, it’s about 20 % of the total population, Orthodox, observant Jews. Now, 60 % of the total casualties in the Israeli army in the last 13 months have been liberal Jewish observant soldiers. I mean, we have three different kinds of religious people over here. The very orthodox, usually the old dressed in black and they have the side pearls and everything else. Then we have the liberal religious, only have a skull cap. Okay? And then we have the non-religious Jews.
I mean, not observant, not necessarily non-religious, but they don’t have any external symbol of their Jewishness, like me, for example. So the middle, I mean, the observant liberal Jews, they account for 60 % of the casualties of the war, which is very significant because the other third of the Jewish people do not work or pay taxes or serve in the army or I don’t know what else.
Okay, so that accounts for 20 % of the Jewish population. Then you have a very large chunk of about 25 % of Arab population, Israelis. They’re Israelis citizens. Most of them are Muslim. Many of them are Christian of different denominations. They do work, they do pay taxes, but they don’t serve in the army. Okay.
Mark Turman (28:24.592)
you
Danny (28:52.191)
They have representation in the Knesset and the Parliament, but they are a minority group that although is looking at all the events from the sidelines, they’re not participating, not against the government, not for the government, they’re just on the sidelines. I don’t know if that is wise or not, but at least they’re not getting involved. Forget strike there at least, they’re not getting involved. And then you have the other 60 % of the population. Those are the ones that serve in the army, that take taxes, that work, and getting very, very, very tired. Out of those 60%, 30 % support this government, 30 % oppose this government. And you thought you had a problem, right?
Mark Turman (29:41.89)
Yeah.
Mike Fanning (29:42.999)
Hahaha
Danny (29:45.425)
Anyway, people are very tired. I said earlier, we’re all bored. We’re also very tired. We’re very tired of that division and the people and the country that Mike you just mentioned. You have to be very careful not to step on anybody’s toes from the religious point of view, from the political point of view.
Half of the population will say that this government is an excellent government. It’s the best government we’ve ever had. The other half of the population will meet every Thursday evening as we talk thousands of people demonstrating against the government. So we are an advising country. If you walk through the streets of Jerusalem on a normal day, it’s a completely different population from what you see in Tel Aviv or and Haifa for that matter. It’s completely like two different countries altogether from the attire point of view. You will not see any ladies in short sleeves in Jerusalem. You will not see young girls with any sleeves in Tel Aviv. Okay? It’s a contrast that actually we were used to live with that. But I guess all the events surrounding us, instead of you know, bringing us together in more than a way have been separating us one from the other. You’re very, and I’ve been very personal right now. You know, my priorities are to my little cosmos, to my little world, to my family, to my kids, to my, I mean, and then to the rest of the society.
Mark Turman (31:41.25)
Yeah, and it just.
Danny (31:41.505)
Okay, and I guess we’re getting very selfish. We’ve become very selfish.
Mark Turman (31:46.862)
Hmm. But that’s yeah, go ahead and Jim. Yeah, absolutely.
Jim Denison (31:47.138)
Mark, I could speak, one thing I was gonna say in response to what Danny was saying earlier about what he’s doing now and what he mentioned just before, that I think is just one of the most remarkable testimonies to the Jewish spirit, to the Jewish culture. One of the many reasons I love Israel so much, people that were listening earlier, Danny saying we still go to restaurants, we still go to movies, we’re doing life as best we can, might be wondering about that at a time of such existential threat, why is it that you’re trying to maintain as much normalcy as you are?
That’s one of the ways the Jewish people have from 1948 forward and really from Abraham forward you could say that’s one of the ways they have responded to their enemies is by not allowing them to change their lives. We’re not going to let the terrorists rule our lives is the idea here. So back before some of the security walls, for instance, when there were suicide bombs on such a regular basis, someone would come into a coffee shop and they would literally blow up a bomb and they would kill 20 or 30 people. The next day,
Danny (32:23.041)
You’re absolutely right.
Jim Denison (32:44.142)
You’d come there and it was like it never happened. In the States, we’d put up a memorial, we’d put up a plaque, we’d do all sorts of things to memorialize that. There, they don’t do that because that’s giving the terrorists control over their daily lives. They grieve for the lost. Of course they do. They grieve for the dead every day. They put rocks and stones at the cemeteries, at the burial plots of their families, but they won’t let the terrorists run their lives. And that’s what they’re doing now. That’s why they’re maintaining as much normalcy as they can.
Danny (33:13.92)
You’re absolutely right.
Jim Denison (33:14.294)
in the face of such existential threat. In terms of being so tired, one of the thought, we’re not aware in the States of how much living or being in the military reserve is important to Israel’s defense. That you serve on active duty for three plus years and then you’re in the reserves until, is it 45 or something, Danny? Until age 45? Well, the reserves do their normal lives. I mean, they are the backbone of the economy of the country. They’re doing their jobs. They’re raising their families. They’re living their lives.
Although they’re still available to serve as necessary, thousands of them, multiple thousands, have been called into active duty the last 13 months. And so they’re having to be soldiers again. So they’re not doing their jobs. They’re not taking care of their families. Those businesses are not getting tended. They’re not being taken care of. So the very infrastructure of Israel is being attacked by what’s being done to force the Israelis, even the reservists, to do what they’re doing right now.
Danny (33:54.422)
Mm-hmm.
Jim Denison (34:09.654)
And all of that, Mike said it before, is part of a larger plot to get the Israelis to leave Israel. There’s this belief in Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran that the existence of Israel is what prevents the return of the Mahdi, of the Messiah, as they see him. They believe that this is a theft of land from the Palestinian owners. While Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran know they’re nowhere near strong enough to defeat Israel militarily. That’s never going to happen. But they can try to drive the Israelis out through a war of attrition.
And that’s why this wall of enemies surrounded by enemies as Danny said is something since 1948 they haven’t faced. They’ve never faced this kind of residual ongoing sustained threat from every dimension against the very lives that they lead. They’re being pushed up from the south. They’re being pushed down from the north. They’re being pushed eastward from the west. They’re being pushed by extremists in the West Bank, which is more volatile than it’s been in a long time. So they’re being pushed from the east. They’re being squeezed out. And the hope is to get the Israelis to leave Israel, to abandon the Jewish state. And the very fact that Danny is still there, that he and I chose to live there, chose to raise their daughters there, and they’re still there, is every single day testimony that they will not abandon their nation, they will not abandon their people, and do they ever deserve our support, our love, and our intercession in these days.
Mark Turman (35:29.87)
Yeah. Yeah. So, so well said, Jim, and thank you for that. just, from what I, Danny, what I hear is that that determination to be defiant in the face of violence and in the face of enemies, is both courageous and enormously taxing. is enormously taxing on a mental and spiritual front, as well as just a day to day physical life.
And that’s one of the places that we can pray for every person in Israel is that it may look like a normal day and you may get to go and see a friend or a family member. may be able to go to the grocery store, be, know, chagrined by the prices, but you still get most, if not all of what you need. but just walking around in that kind of weightiness, that, kind of just ongoing day to day, month over month reality. Plus you’re constantly Danny, tell me if I’m wrong. You’re constantly hearing about this person’s, family member or your own family member that’s either entering into the military or has been injured in the military. and Danny, I didn’t, again, there’s so many, so much weight to everything that, that you’re describing.
Can you talk for a moment? I wouldn’t want us to, to go too far down our conversation without mentioning the remaining hostages and that whole part of the story. how much of that is on your mind and kind of on the mind of the people in Israel? that’s, that’s a horrific part of this story that continues as well. Can you kind of talk about where that lands for you and for others?
Danny (37:23.37)
Yeah, I just want to say before I answer your very complicated question, let me refer to something that Dr. Benson just said. We’re resilient, we have a lot of strength, we try to, and we actually manage to live in spite of. One of the things that you people, Americans, take for granted is that we have a lot of friends that help us, support us. Maybe not as much as we would like to, maybe not under any, every condition, in any condition, but we still have a lot of friends. We’re not alone. know, alphabetically order A, America is one of them. I mean, Great Britain, France, Germany, a lot of countries that have been supporting Israel, not necessarily only from, you know, from the hard work point of view.
But supporting Israel in many of the international meeting places and conferences and even in the United Nations. So that’s another point that is very important. I was talking about a ray of light. I’m going to really try very, very hard to avoid any political comment. But the United States has been a beacon of light for us. Okay.
Not necessarily only because of the F, what is it, the F15, F35 planes. I don’t know the numbers, but not only necessarily for that, but for the fact that it it stands, you know, with Israel. All right. And that’s important. I mean, it’s not only that we’re resilient and everything else, we all have friends that support us and help us. To your question, to your question Mark. We’re all together 90 million people over here. It’s like a big, big family. Okay? Eventually, you know, that’s the cousin of Mary that used to live in Haifa and now lives in Nariya. She’s the one that got injured in Sajahiyah. We know most of the people, not all of them, but most of them. They’re not names and numbers. They are people that we know the cousin of or the brother of or the son of or the grandson of, we know who they are. It’s not some… Sorry. It’s not an anonymous entity. They are people. It’s very hard to convey, we… Mark, you said compassion. I love that. We feel the pain of the families. We the pain of those people that are underground or maybe nothing’s in the underground in, you know, in homes in Gaza. We feel their pain because we know who they are. And more than anger, it’s impotence. You want to do something. You want to help. You want to… There’s nothing you can do. I mean, I’m talking about myself right now, okay, but most of the noncombat and know non decision making people there’s nothing we can do except for feel compassion and pray and pray really hard because there must be suffering it’s a very emotional subject okay let’s leave it at that
Mark Turman (41:05.604)
Hmm. Yeah, very hard. Sure. We’ll let you go, Mike.
Mike Fanning (41:08.836)
Can I ask a question?
Okay, this is a real easy question Danny. and I pro it’s probably not fair to ask because nobody knows the answer but
Put your prophet hat on if you want to. Give us two scenarios on how this is going to end. Give us two scenarios on this is what’s going to happen in the next year. Realizing beforehand and stating beforehand that you have no idea, we have no idea, and the way it’s going to end is probably not even entered our minds, but as an Israeli,
What are the two scenarios you could envision as realistic end games for this entire mess, for lack of a better term, that you guys have been dealing with for the last 13 months?
Danny (42:09.034)
You flatter me. You really flatter me.
Mike Fanning (42:10.704)
Well, you know me, I certainly didn’t mean to do that.
Jim Denison (42:17.194)
No, that was a mistake. That may be the one take away of this whole conversation for the first time in 40 years, Mike flattered Danny.
Mark Turman (42:17.391)
Hahaha
Mike Fanning (42:26.422)
I, yeah, if that’s the case, then I truly made a mistake. But no, exactly. But seriously, do you have any scenarios that you’re looking at or is it just no way?
Danny (42:42.11)
I don’t have enough information. I don’t have enough tools. I don’t have enough insight to be able to, you know, tell you my wise opinion because I don’t have one. I can tell you what I hope for. Okay. And, you know, stick with that. That’s good enough. I hope that the big brother will come in and settle things with Lebanon. That’s the first thing.
needs to be done. All right? When I say settle things, it’s like have Hezbollah move back like seven kilometers, that would be what? Three miles, four miles from the Israeli border, okay? No military presence in that security zone and a status quo like modus vivendi, you know, way of life.
What I’m about to say right now is going to be very cruel. I hope that in Gaza, okay, we manage to rescue most Naro. We’re not going to be able to rescue all of them, all of the hostages alive many of them are going to lose their lives. But after that, again, there’s going to be a security and there’s going to be a fence as high as the sky. We don’t want to be in there. We don’t want them to come in into Israel. They’re praying. They’re paying a very, very high price. I don’t know if you guys get to see some of the Arabic more politically involved the TV channels like for example, that’s Azira. Images are terrible, terrible. mean, people are literally starving of death and they’re literally thousands of injured and dead. They don’t have a home to go back to. They don’t have a place of work to go back to. If tomorrow Israel seizes the humanitarian help, they’ll all starve to death. Basically, I hope that the whole thing comes to a halt. But in order for it to…
Danny (45:06.911)
I mean, I don’t know, maybe I’m not wise enough. I mean, if I would be the prime minister or the chief of staff of the army or the defense secretary, I would stand up in front of all the battery of microphones and say, we are going to end this, give us back our hostages and we’re done. And that’s it, we’re done. No need of truce or anything, no talks. Give us back our people and that’s it. We’re finished fighting.
And then we build a wall. Nobody in, nobody out. That’s it. That would be the ideal thing. I thought it very much because there are too many hands on this little plate of our friends and of our enemies. Okay? I don’t know where Qatar stands over here, for example. I don’t know who they are. I don’t know what they’re looking, what they’re meddling in. I don’t know what the Saudis are. And every second day we hear a new announcement by, what’s his name? Dr. Hassoudi?
Jim Denison (46:03.176)
Muhammad bin Salman, MBS they call him.
Danny (46:05.441)
Yes, Benzema. Thank you very much. So, I don’t know. I really hope.
Mark Turman (46:11.946)
So Danny, Danny, in, even in the last, even the last 30 days, I’ve heard some, commentators here in America, even Jewish commentators say that they thought that Israel was soon going to declare quote unquote victory in Gaza. Are you all getting that kind of a message at this point?
Danny (46:35.327)
No, sir. And again, I claim to my ignorance. I think a lot of things that are going on are tainted by politics, from the right and from the left. In-house politics, and Egyptian politics, and Qatari politics, United States politics, German politics. It serves a purpose. All those wars, all these wars server purpose. mean, I’m not talking about only the industries, but there’s a lot of things that go around the war that serve a purpose of different companies and different countries and different political parties. you know, Dr. Vinnison said something very wise many years ago. Wars do not end with a victory anymore. Okay. It’s kind of hard.
Jim Denison (47:25.223)
I did. Well, make sure we.
Danny (47:33.673)
I mean, ever since, what was it, Dr. Jackson? Second World War, if I’m not mistaken. Okay? Nobody, no war ended with a victory. I mean, you like, you put the, what was it, though? They put the American flag in Fujijama, what was it? Yeah, okay. That’s not gonna happen anymore. It’s not gonna happen anymore.
Jim Denison (47:37.262)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jim Denison (47:47.982)
you were Juma? Yeah. Yeah.
Mike Fanning (47:49.036)
Iwo Jima.
Mark Turman (47:49.744)
You would you
Mark Turman (48:00.112)
Yeah.
Mike Fanning (48:00.484)
Yeah. And you know what you said, there’s so many fingers in that pie and it’s like, there’s no way that. I mean, I don’t know. It’s just, mean, that’s why we pray. We don’t have any idea. And it, it, looks like it’s, it’s never going to end. then other days I wake up and it looks like it’s going to end tomorrow. And I just, I just don’t know. I just don’t know. And I’m ready to get back over there. That’s all I know.
Danny (48:15.649)
Amen.
Mark Turman (48:29.322)
Yeah. Yeah.
Danny (48:29.397)
Well, we miss you. Most of you, not necessarily all of you, but most of you.
Mike Fanning (48:30.948)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha
Mark Turman (48:34.81)
D Danny, did, you, yeah. It’s a big statement to say that you miss Mike. just, know we could understand how you would. Yeah. I can understand how you would miss.
Danny (48:40.182)
No, no, no, I said I was going to you.
Jim Denison (48:42.542)
That’s it.
Mike Fanning (48:42.552)
No, he did not say that. He did not say that. If you listen carefully, yeah.
Mark Turman (48:46.444)
Yeah.
Jim Denison (48:48.128)
Even though Mike complimented Danny, which, you know, Danny’s still shocked. That’s right. That’s right.
Mark Turman (48:50.692)
Yeah, it was very.
Mike Fanning (48:51.226)
Flattered him was the word. I’m gonna remember that. I’ve flattered you one time, Danny. You remember that?
Danny (48:55.457)
Thank you, thank you. I really appreciate that. Yes, sir.
Mark Turman (48:56.292)
No. So Danny, Danny, you, you talked about this a few minutes ago and just like when Jim talks about this, I got lost. because if we think that our culture in America and our politics are complex and dense and confusing,
Jim Denison (49:07.116)
Yeah.
Mark Turman (49:19.568)
One of the things I’ve learned in hanging out with you guys the last few years and traveling to Israel and getting to know you and others, some is it, it’s culturally, religiously, it is so complex. as Dr. Dennison, Jim has this talk called the three Rs that when you land in Israel, you have to start thinking about race, religion and region. Right. Jim is it, am I getting it right? It’s the three point sermon, which by the way, when you get to this end of Jim’s three-point sermon on Israel, involves race, religion, and region, you, you will not be ready to make any kind of a decision. You’ll just be more confused than you’ve ever been. That’s the goal. And that’s the, so, so anyway, one of the things that was strange to me every time I’ve been to Israel, which is four times, which makes me a complete rookie in this conversation. All right. is, is that.
Danny (50:03.809)
That’s a whole purpose!
Mark Turman (50:18.746)
There’s so many friendships that cross across all of those lines of race, religion, and region, that you can have somebody like Danny, who is both Jewish and Christian, and you can have a Palestinian Muslim Arab driving the bus and they have been great friends for more than two decades. So Danny, my.
Jim Denison (50:43.469)
Yes.
Mark Turman (50:45.678)
My question, don’t, so all of these people and all of these dynamics are living side by side every single day. And many times represents very deep, deep friendship and collaboration and business and that type of thing. Danny, how, in what way, if any, has all of this affected those kinds of friendships for you and others, you know,
Danny (51:11.617)
Very little. Very little.
Jim Denison (51:17.976)
Good.
Danny (51:20.363)
You tend to put an emphasis in what unites you and not necessarily on what tears you apart. I’m still pretty much in touch with all our mutual friends in Bethlehem, in Jericho. I haven’t been able to visit or they haven’t been able to come over either. We still talk to each other. I have friends.
I am ashamed to acknowledge that, but they’re far left in the Israeli spectrum of politics. And I have other friends who are far right. And we all met the day after yesterday at the Mahane Yehud market in Jerusalem. And we had a dinner. We fought over the hummus, but that’s beside the point. But we so many other things to talk about and not politics and not, I mean, not the things that could draw us apart.
Danny (52:17.889)
but rather what keeps us together. So I guess that’s the only secret. And again, I wish I could attribute that to being wise or something, but it’s the other way around. It’s like Dr. Dennison just said, I mean, all those walls, actually what they do is they keep us together. They make us look for whatever we have in common and not necessarily what separates us. One for the other.
Mike Fanning (52:44.674)
I’ve always, always said that if we got our mutual friends, our Israeli, our Palestinian, our Muslim, Christian, Jewish, all our mutual friends, if we got around a big table, put some hummus there, make sure you salted it though, Danny, right? Grab a bunch of hummus and some falafels and… Exactly, Danny would eat all the rice. Yeah, yeah.
Jim Denison (53:00.524)
That’s right.
Danny (53:00.929)
You
Jim Denison (53:06.326)
And give Danny all the rice. Give him the big bowl of rice, because he’s going to eat all the rice. All the rice. He’ll eat all the rice.
Mike Fanning (53:14.18)
Yeah, for sure. But I’ve always said, get all of our friends around the table, we could solve this thing by the time the hummus was gone. And it just, it makes me so mad because you have all these other factors that are keeping this thing going. If it was left to the regular folks, it’d be done. It’d be over.
Danny (53:20.67)
Okay.
Mark Turman (53:23.696)
You
Mark Turman (53:37.722)
No, no, yeah, so yeah. Yeah.
Jim Denison (53:39.65)
Mark. remember one of them, if I could tell the quick story, one of my first times to Israel, we were walking through the old city and I was, which is so compressed to begin with, you know, and I knew there was a Muslim quarter and a Jewish quarter, a Christian quarter, Armenian quarter. And I thought, okay, these are going to be quarters and there’s going to be like walls here. And these are going to be like four segments and people that are in one have nothing to do with the other. Nothing I just said is true. I mean, they just do life together. They watch each other’s shops. They watch after each other’s kids.
They are literally experiencing life together, whether they’re Muslim or they’re Jewish or they’re Armenian or they’re whatever kind of Muslim they might be, Sunni and Shia that are there together, various kinds of Jewish. And Danny can tell you from the hats and ways, I never could. Okay, they’re from Russia or they’re from Azerbaijan or wherever they’re from and all the stuff inside that. And to watch the way they do life together is such hope to the rest of us. That’s one of the many reasons I love going there and love bringing people there. To show them, as Mike said, we can do this, we can get together.
It’s possible to do this if we’ll just get some of this stuff out of the way that’s infuriating to all the rest of us. One of our first trips to Bethlehem back in the day, you had to get off of the Jewish tour bus and had to leave the and walk through passport control to get into an Arab Palestinian Bethlehem bus and driver and guide to go over to Church of the Incarnation and do the things you do in Bethlehem. And so we were pulled aside and the Palestinian Arab Muslim driver came over and do be our Jewish Jewish he’s Jewish in religion and in race and religion driver get out and they just start talking to each other like long-lost friends hugging each other and you know catching up and I pointed that out to the people on the bus and I said those are those are the enemies you keep hearing about in the news look at those guys that’s how life is there and that’s one of the many things I love so much about Israel and that’s one of the things to pray for is as Danny says that the walls would draw them closer to each other rather than drive them apart because that’s what the enemy wants.
Mark Turman (55:39.888)
Yeah. So well said. So well said. I’ve, we could talk, we could talk for three more hours and we would really want to, and if, if nothing else, Danny, would be our hope and prayer that just having this conversation and getting to laugh with friends would be life giving to you. But, I, and this, question is kind of the, the, the second or the first of the last two questions that I have.
Danny (55:40.395)
Amen.
Mark Turman (56:08.376)
is really for all three of you. But then the last question is for Danny, clarify for those who they may not listen as closely to these conversations as they should all the time, but make the distinction between the enemies of Israel who want to eliminate the Jewish state. Does that also mean that they want to eliminate the Jews as a race on the planet? Are those two things the same in this conflict that we’re in?
Mike Fanning (56:42.456)
I’m going to let Jim answer that fully, but I will say this. People absolutely confuse being either pro-Israel or anti-Israel with being pro-Jew or anti-Jew. And you cannot, you cannot. Here’s an example. We just had an election. There were some people who voted for the winner. There were some people who voted for the loser. It’d be like saying you voted for this person, you’re anti, you’re pro the United States, you voted for this person, you’re anti-United States. That’s not the same. So Jim, you can go on and answer further that question.
Jim Denison (57:23.512)
Well, for once you were right, Mike. I mean, you you really were. Mike was just brilliant. That was, know, that’s, know. What did I say? What was that word I said again? What did I mean to say there? Can you edit that out, Yeah. Yeah, Mark, you’ll edit that later, won’t you? So, yeah. So to be a Zionist is someone who believes the state of the modern state of Israel should exist. Created May 14, 1940.
Mark Turman (57:28.75)
And we’re going to, we’re going to have to preserve this conversation for a long time. Yeah.
Danny (57:29.569)
Please, enough!
Mike Fanning (57:32.654)
What did you say? was what? I couldn’t hear that.
Danny (57:34.529)
It’s not.
Mike Fanning (57:38.308)
Yeah.
Mark Turman (57:38.412)
Can I check your mic? Jim, I think I need to check your mic. Yeah.
Jim Denison (57:50.882)
I’m a very strong Zionist. I very much believe the state of Israel should exist. There are people in the world who do not believe what I just said for all sorts of reasons that do not mean that they hate Jews. That doesn’t mean you’re necessarily anti-Semitic if you don’t believe the state of Israel ought to exist. That used to be the case, I would say, even more than it is now. And so to make the point, Mark, it’s not necessarily true that those that are a poised to the state of Israel are therefore necessarily opposed to Jews and want to kill Jews themselves. However, Hamas and Hezbollah are both.
Hamas and Hezbollah believe that the state of Zionism, the Zionist enemy as they call it, has stolen the land from the rightful Palestinian owners. They see this as a theft of land from Muslims. They see it as an attack on Islam. They believe they’re required by the Quran to respond to defend Islam by destroying Israel. And they also are anti-Semitic in their belief that Jews themselves are as a race what is behind all this. If you look at Hamas’s founding charter back in 1987,
The anti-Semitism in the charter is horrific. The degree to which they blamed the second world war on the Jews and the first world war on the Jews. There were those that blame COVID on the Jews. There were those that blame the great depression on the Jews as anti-Semitic as Hitler and the Nazis, seeing them as a race that needed to be exterminated. And I’m very sorry to say this, but there are places in the Quran that do refer to Jews as apes and swine. And so there are some who see the Jews themselves as the enemies and see Zionism as an expression of that. But not all. There are others that would be opposed to the state of Israel, but are not necessarily, therefore, anti-Semitic in wanting to destroy Jews themselves. But back again, the reason Hamas did what they did on October 7 is not just because they were attacking the state of Israel. They were trying to eradicate and annihilate Jews. And the reason they were so terroristic, so horrifically terroristic, was to drive the other Jews out.
And that was an anti-Semitic act on top of being anti-Zionistic in terms of the political purposes behind it, if that makes sense. So there is a distinction depending on who it is you’re speaking of.
Mark Turman (59:58.798)
Yeah, very, very important. I guess I should say, Danny, did we get it right? Or should I say, did they get it right?
Danny (01:00:02.497)
I don’t believe that those people that student that we saw in the last couple of months demonstrating in the universities of the United States were really only quote unquote anti-Zionist. guess you know what? Maybe I should tell you about my grandpa Oscar who served in the German army in the first world war.
Jim Denison (01:00:02.594)
Yes, please.
Jim Denison (01:00:11.436)
No.
Danny (01:00:29.299)
and then he was forced out of Germany not because he was a Zionist but because he was a Jew so you know it’s very hard to draw a line a distinction between the two things I don’t think they’re that different or that
Jim Denison (01:00:43.576)
Not today.
Mike Fanning (01:00:44.048)
And I will say this just to confuse everybody even more. Here you have Hezbollah and Hamas and Iran trying to destroy Israel. At the same time, you have the largest Muslim country, Saudi Arabia, ready to sign a peace deal with Israel. I mean, one thing that I-
Jim Denison (01:00:58.392)
Right.
Danny (01:01:00.671)
The largest and the site of Mecca. mean, they’re the keepers of religion, by the way.
Jim Denison (01:01:05.932)
Right, Mecca Medina,
Mike Fanning (01:01:08.176)
Exactly. it’s like you, one thing that people learn and I love about, and one of the greatest things I enjoy about taking people to Israel is they have all these preconceived notions about how people are in different camps. And you can just throw all that out the window because there is no, you like, for example, you mentioned a do be a minute ago, you know, he’s an Israeli Jewish Palestinian. Whoa, whoa, wait a minute. Wait a minute.
Jim Denison (01:01:33.55)
Palestinian.
Mike Fanning (01:01:35.77)
POOM! My brain just blew up. What are you talking about? So here you have Iran trying to destroy the Jews and Israel. At the same time Saudi Arabia, the keeper of the Muslim faith and where their holiest site is, is trying to sign a peace drill with Israel. Go figure.
Mark Turman (01:01:53.338)
Yeah. And that, that right there is worth the price of admission to this podcast, because what that means is, is every person, but particularly every young person either needs to go to this region of the world when it is more peaceful, or they need to have a deep dive in geopolitics and religion, for this part of the world, because God has done so much in and from this part of the world.
Mark Turman (01:02:22.512)
all of us that, are a part of this call and all that will listen to this have in some way been influenced, shaped and impacted by what God has done and continues to do from an end, part of the world and to understand, some of its complexity and more important, more importantly, to appreciate its beauty. and the wonder of its people figuring out how to do life well here togetheris a miracle in and of itself and to understand that sometimes the leaders, and their agendas don’t match the people’s agenda. And we all understand how that’s true in every country, including our own. but Danny, wanted to try to bring our conversation to a landing with you on kind of a two-part question. One is, is there, are there specific things that you would say you would want us to pray? for that we haven’t already mentioned. And, the other thing I would just ask, just, kind of a pastoral question to you, which is, this, conversation that you’ve been gracious to do with us and for us with notwithstanding and the dinner that you mentioned a moment ago, are there places in times every week, every other week where you and your wife and your circle of people.
Are there places where y’all are able to find a way to take a deep breath of relief and just kind of get a fresh breath of air to your soul? is that happening? And, can you tell us a little bit about that before we go?
Danny (01:04:09.057)
Okay, let me start from the second question. Yes, as I said before, find lot of solace and lot of strength in meeting with people who are in the same or better situation that we are. Family and friends become a very, very important feature in your everyday life. Otherwise, we would go bananas.
I’m not the only one that doesn’t watch news in the morning. Most other people do not listen or watch news in the morning. So, you know, a human award is a very important feature, especially in these days. The fact that you know that your friend or your wife or your children or your grandchildren are, you know, at a hugging distance. That’s very, very important. Very, very important. How about the first question?
Is there anything you can do? I mean, let me me quote. What was it? Dr. Dyson? What was the book that the pray for the peace of Jerusalem? It’s already written. That’s it. not necessarily Jerusalem. Pray for the peace of Jerusalem. I mean, I wish I would have would have said that sentence 2000 years ago. didn’t. So I’m hoping somebody else would say that. I guess that does it.
Mark Turman (01:05:36.794)
Yeah, Danny, thank you so much. And before we close out, Mike, want to just ask you to close us in prayer for all that we’ve been talking about today. And I know that our audience will, join us in this prayer. And I hope that it’s been helpful, encouraging and equipping most of all to Danny and, to just his life and soul, but to those that followed Dennison forum.
Mike Fanning (01:05:44.9)
You bet.
Jim Denison (01:05:46.914)
And Danny, thank you for this time.
Mark Turman (01:06:03.352)
We know that it will be something there to eager to follow with us as well. So Mike. Okay. Yeah.
Jim Denison (01:06:07.586)
And Mark, let me just thank Danny for his time today. Danny, thank you so much for doing this, brother. Love you. So glad to see you, even glad to see Mike, but especially glad to see you. Thank you, brother. Know that we’re praying every day, okay? We’re for you and you’re not alone in this. We are for you and we are with you, my friend.
Danny (01:06:11.265)
Miss you. All of you. Amen. Amen.
Mike Fanning (01:06:26.264)
Okey doke. let’s pray dear Lord. Thank you for everybody in this conversation. we pray for the peace of Jerusalem. pray for not just the peace of Jerusalem. We pray for our friends. We pray for Danny and Inez for Maya and Tali and their kids and their husbands. We pray for Ruben for Sandy, for Gotti, for Doobie, for all of our friends, for Edward for, I could go on and on. We pray for them, not just the peace of Jerusalem, but for our friends who live in Jerusalem and in that region. And we ask that you bring peace to that region and that you bring it quickly and that we can get back to what some semblance of normality so where we can go back and see our friends and be able to spend time with them. So that’s our prayer. And it’s such a big issue and it’s such a big problem that it’s going to take a big God to fix it. And that’s why we trust you to do it. So
Be with all of us. Thank you for all you’ve done for us. And we look forward to the day. are all having dinner at Machna Yehuda in Jerusalem, once again, around a big table, sharing hummus and pita and conversation. We ask it all in your name. Amen.
Danny (01:07:42.261)
Amen.
Mark Turman (01:07:42.352)
Amen. Thank you guys. And I want to say thank you to our audience and grateful for you taking this journey of conversation with us. And, if we can help you in some way, please let us know. You can reach us at info at denisonforum.org. We pray that you have a great day and we’ll see you next time on the Denison forum podcast.
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